Worthy of Discussion

JILL SAYS
I'm thinking of tattooing the Nike swoosh on my forehead. Something artistic and well-done, but still BIG and smack in the middle of my head. Hey, my kids aren't the only ones who know about attention seeking behavior.

Here's the deal. Eric recently got back from a day of golf with four buddies. All married men with children. Here is the gist of our post-golf conversation:

Jill: So, how is everyone? what's new?

Eric: Not much . . . .fine I guess.

Jill: Oh, well how are their kids liking school so far?

Eric: Ummm. . . I dunno. I guess we didn't talk about that.

Jill: Well what about so-and-so's wife's pregnancy? She must be due soon, huh?

Eric: What? They're having another kid? I didn't know.

Jill: Blink - Blink - Blink. Well, what DID you all talk about for the last FOUR hours?

Eric: Ummm . . . .golf?

Want to know the mental picture in my head when he says this?
Doh!

Does this conversation sound familiar to anyone else? Eric gently explains to me that men don't talk about their families. It isn't done. Oh, he might talk about our oldest son's sports activities, but that's sports - safely in the guy comfort zone. Now, I'm 96.5% sure that Eric and all his friends love their families more than sports, so why the code of silence? What gives? Do I really need to get that Nike tat to be worthy of discussion?

So Eric, I'm sure you don't want to talk about this, but tell us, how do you plead?

ERIC SAYS

Guilty as charged. I know the calendar reads 2006, and I know men are supposed to be all enlightened, but when it comes to talking to other men about our kids, we just haven't yet figured how that fits into our view of what it means to be a 21st Century man. After all, we are practically the first generation of men in recorded history expected to be equal partners in the raising of our children. That's a heavy burden for us, seeing how it cuts into our evening tv-viewing time. And what self-respecting "guy's guy" would want to be "outed" to his golfing buddies as some sort of caring, loving father who goes around on the golf course talking about his kids? Exactly.

Instead, men pretend to our friends that we're hands-off parents. We pretend that only our wives change the diapers. That we are able to sit, uninterrupted on the couch each night, smoking our pipes and reading the paper while our small children remain unseen and unheard. Collectively, I think all men engage in this little charade where we pretend that we still wear the pants and that our wives take care of the kids. Of course, we all know this is completely untrue, but it's our fantasy and we expect our friends to believe it.

If it makes our wives feel any better about our seemingly callous attitudes toward our families, we guys are at least consistent. We also don't really talk much about our relationships with our guy friends. Unlike on the home front, very little relationship talk takes place when men get together on the golf course. Rarely, if ever, do my friends ask me about whether we are "meeting each other's emotional needs" or why I "never cuddle anymore," nor, come to think of it, do you hear them asking me things like, "why can't you think about someone other than yourself, Eric?"

Anyway, because of this code of silence, I just assume all my friends have emotionally-fulfilling marriages and enjoy great relationships with any children they might or might not have. . . .But I guess I wouldn't really know about that.

Sex & Priorities

Setting: marriage counseling
Scene from Mr. & Mrs. Smith: cameras open on John and Jen sitting side-by-side on the therapy couch.

Counselor: So what brings you two in today?

Jen: My husband seems to think that our sex life is suffering. But I completely disagree with him.

Counselor: Mm-hmm. How so?

John: We ...don’t ...have ...sex.

(both Jen and the counselor lean in as if expecting him to offer more)

John: I mean, we have sex occasionally when she feels like it. It’s as if she’s holding it hostage and I need to negotiate for time. I feel like I need to earn five gold stars to earn a prize. She is using her powers over when, if, and where we have sex as a tool of training me to be a better husband.

Counselor: I see…

Jen: (exasperated) That is sooo not the case! It’s really about priorities, and getting things done as needed. Not to mention ‘atmosphere’. I need to be able to get into the mood.

John: The only way to get you into the mood is if all the planets were to align, and I passed a thirty-two point inspection in the kitchen. Then, and only then, maybe you’d think about getting in the mood. My point is: it shouldn’t be such a challenge. I have a better chance of having sex if I put it in your calendar. You always need to ‘plan ahead’ for everything. See, I don’t need any planning, I’m like an ambulance driver: On-call, ready to respond at a moment’s notice.

Jen: Well, I’m not the least bit surprised with that. And, yeah, I mean that IS what the calendar was meant for originally. If I can glance at it and see what’s coming up (no pun intended) then maybe I’d be better prepared and able to relax when the actual event were to happen. I can’t just drop what I’m doing and ‘start going at it’ in a moment’s notice. After an entire day playing with the kids, being spit-up on, and having my hair pulled (and spit-up on) I just don’t have the sexual drive or strength to think past getting myself to bed early and having to do it all again the following day. Not to mention all the foreplay I need to even GET me to the point of thinking about sex. Hell, I don’t want to just LIE there!

John: Oh, it’s foreplay you’re worried about? That’s all?! Well, I can do all that stuff – pulling your hair and spitting on you, all while you just lie there, Honey…. That’s what I’m talkin’ about! But seriously, it’s not like we’re dating and I need to impress you. Back then we had time for an hour of foreplay, some soft music, and candles. It was the game of keeping the relationship fresh and exciting; keeping you interested and avoiding routine. Now, our time is limited because the day is spent revolving around our children. So, when we do have a window of opportunity I don’t want to work so hard like we’re dating. I want you to want me as much as I want you. Sometimes I feel like you’re tired of fighting me off so you just give it up to shut me up.

Jen: But see, that’s the entire point: Time. There IS no time for anything BUT taking care of the kids. The moment I wake up in the morning I hit the ground running, and it’s like that the entire day. I’m lucky if I get five minutes to tie my hair back and change out of my pjs! By the end of it all I just don’t have any more of me to give, let alone be sexual.

John: Let me put this into perspective. I’m not saying that everyday I come home from work I need you to meet me at the door ready to give it up. I completely understand that we have priorities which come first. But you can go WEEKS without even initiating it, it’s like a coin flip: when I roll over in bed, put my arm around you and kiss you on the neck, the reaction I get is never predictable. I think most of the time I say to myself “here it comes, she’s gonna tell me she’s too tired, or not in the mood. Or maybe she has just enough energy to spout off a ‘stop it’.” Ouch, rejected again.

Jen: So, that’s your point? That’s the problem, feeling rejected? Really, after all is said and done, when I’ve hung up my ‘mommy-hat’ at the end of the day I need time to slip into the role of hot, sexy wife. You know, brush my hair out, make sure my legs are shaven, that my pedicure is intact; all that girlie stuff, because though it may not matter to you, it matters a whole lot to me. It’s more a state of mind than a physical thing.

John: I understand. But don’t I always tell you how beautiful you are? Ever since we had our first child the everyday responsibilities have changed. It just seems that our opportunities for sex have been so limited that we should take advantage of the small windows of time we DO have to spend with one another. It’s not just about having sex, it’s about feeling close to you.

Jen (looking deeply into John’s eyes): Awww! Honey! I miss you too!

John smiles and reaches out to hold her hand. They kiss passionately before realizing that the counselor is still with them. Immediately they stand and very quickly thank him for all of his help before they nearly run out the door to take advantage of the small window of time together before having to pick the kids up from the babysitter’s.

Don't drink? Don't smoke? What do ya do?

Jenn said:

BLOG!

My husband has this cute little pet name for me......No it's not sweetie or honey or schmoopsie or even Frog (which is what it USED to be). No no nothing cutesy and romantic like that. No, his little pet name for me is: MOUSE POTATO!

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

He thinks I spend too much time on the computer. Since I'm writing this to you, oh blogosphere, I know I have some company out there. I'm sure you all hear it too. In fact, this cartoon from Blogging Chicks says it perfectly, doesn't it?

Thing is, I don't feel like I do that. I think I'm barely on-line when I'm home. When he's not there yes, when I'm at work yes, but at night I don't think I'm on a lot at all! I'm constantly thinking that I'd like to go on, but don't. Sheesh, imagine if I was on as much as I wished I could be.......what would he think THEN?!?!?!

My husband is a rare breed. Really, he is. He's absolutely wonderful. I wouldn't trade him for anything and I'm lucky as hell to have found him. When I go out with my girlfriends they all complain about their husbands and I just sit there and smile and nod. Sometimes I bring up things that used to annoy me about my ex, just to fit into the conversation. At some point in the conversation they look at me and say, what about Mike? Then I have to cringe (cause I know the eye rolling is coming) and tell them: No, actually he's really clean, I'm the messy one. No he's great with the baby, I never have to guilt him into taking care of her. No, he does his own laundry if he's out of something, cooks his own meal if I'm too busy or tired, doesn't drink and then treat me like shit, ect..... > Insert eye roll here. *shrug* sorry.....

In fact, most of the time it's ME who may not clean up after herself all the time...once in a while....occasionally....but hardly ever.....*whistles* Forgets to do things.......also very rare. Gets engrossed in the TV and doesn't hear him when he talks.....what? ME? I don't even WATCH TV!! Anyway, let me quit while I'm behind here and get back on point....Blogging.....alone time....

The truth is blogging just replaced computer games for me. I've spent probably years of my life in front of a computer playing on-line games like Everquest while drinking beer and chain smoking. Well, I don't do that anymore. I don't drink or smoke (regularly) and I don't play any more games. Instead I blog....occasionally...once in a while.....hardly ever!

I hear women in the blogosphere constantly talking about needing time alone, time for themselves, yadda yadda yadda. This can't include me. These women have husbands that don't help them. They need to do everything themselves. They stay home all day with the kids and need a reprieve....right? That's not me. How could I need that? I'm alone at work all day. I feel like I barely see Allie as it is, how could I need MORE time without her? And Mike? He's wonderful....he's everything I could have dreamed for....why would I need time without him? So that I can blog?!?!? Someone smack me right now!!!! He doesn't get time alone! Why should I? Although maybe we both need it.

Am I being selfish? I do that sometimes.......and I don't notice it till way after. And then I think......wow how did I not see that? I was such a bitch!

How does one balance: Time with family. Time with husband. Time alone. While also working, going to family functions, hanging out with friends and having a clean house? Oh yea and there's also that little thing called sleep.....

It's like the age old question isn't it?
Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side....DUH!!
How does one balance their time equally and efficiently? You CAN'T.......DUH!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike said:


So, I’ve been thinking lately...

...that maybe I pick on my wife too much. She LOVES being on the computer. It started with internet based video games. She played a lot on games like EverQuest and World of Warcraft (WOW) before we were together. I do have to admit that she did get me into WOW for a while. I used to spend hours playing before we got married while she was out doing wedding stuff. The games are addicting, I admit it.

Now she blogs all the time; reading, commenting writing, etc. I love her a lot and she’s wonderful with our daughter. We both work all day, but after dinner, she likes to play with the baby for a little while, then she wants to go online “just to check her email” (which always turns into much more). I mean, there are much worse things she could be doing. She doesn’t do drugs. She rarely smokes or drinks. I understand that she gets lost in what she’s doing and that helps her to relax, so why shouldn’t I let her have this one thing? I guess my reasons are selfish. Simply, I miss her. I want us to spend time as a family, and then once our little girl goes to bed, I like to sit with her. We don’t even have to say anything, I just like when she’s around. I guess that’s why I married her.

I know, I kind of sound like a nagging woman saying, “Are you still watching the game?” or “Get out of the garage and come inside!” Does anyone else go thru this stuff, or is it just me?

The Question...

by Issa

You all know the question I mean right? Well any of you who have a child under one may not have heard it. The lovely, "when are you going to have another child." Oh, now you know right? For some reason that I've never understood, people start asking you the moment your first child turns one years old. You know, because on that day, they are miraculously grown enough for you to want to start over. And these people expect answers. They don't want to hear that you haven't thought about it or you don't know if you want another. No, they want a time line.

Now on the other side of that, if you are already pregnant by the time your first turns one, you are seen as a nut case. You know, one of those weirdos who doesn't know how this happens. People and their opinions. I've always wondered why they even care? Are they going to give birth for you? Are they going to diaper two kids or potty train your first one? Are they going to stay up nights with a newborn, only to be greeted at 6am by a toddler who is ready to play all day? Nopes, I didn't think so either. I mean, for Christ's sake, does it really matter if kids are two years apart in age? Do all kids have to be two years apart in age? Will they be less than human being if they are three or four or dare I say it, 8 years apart in age? I really doubt it.

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, for the love of all things sane, please people stop asking moms this.

Thank you for your time.

Issa

The Question...

by Nick

My wife feels strongly about this. I could care less. Every time someone asked us when we were having another, I thought it was cool. It means they care. It means they are curious. It means they want to buy you more things. It also means they think you are doing such a great job raising the cutest little girl, or boy I guess, in the world. What else are they going to ask you? When you are dating, people ask when you are getting married. It not that their being pests, they just are curious. Curiosity never killed no one. Except a cat. But who cares about cats? I don't, that's for sure.

Once you get married, they are of course curious about when you will have kids. Not everyone has kids and they get that, but they still want to know either way. It's just human nature. If you say, no we;re not, then they want to know why. Not to judge, just to make sure it's not because you don't like them. If you don't like kids, they want to know, so they don't leave theirs to you in their will. It is that simple. Once they know that you are having kids, they want to know the names. Don't tell them is my choice. Just because you won't want to hear what they think about it. If you want to name your kid Abnus, please don't tell me, I will laugh at you. If you tell me your kid is Abnus after it is born, I will tell you it has pretty eyes.

It is all just curiosity. I love to ask people when they are having another kid. It makes Issa hit me, but it's worth it. So really, Jenn and Mike, when are you having another? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

Nick

What's this all about?

It's a way for us to be more addicted to the internet and blogosphere.........

Oh, THIS blog specifically? Well, it's an idea that came into my head one night when I should have been sleeping.

Everyone loves when couples blog. Why? Well, cause Blogs are so ONE SIDED, and it's cool to get the other side of the story. Mommybloggers are everywhere! Daddybloggers are getting more and more popular too! Couple blogging, however, isn't as widespread. But when it does happen (usually with a guest post on their significant other's blog) people love it! They love to see who that 'other person' they always read about REALLY is. Plus people (including me) love to be like a fly on the wall when couples argue....err I mean talk about stuff. So here's your chance to be a fly!

There are always three sides to every story. His side, Her side, and the truth. Dad said - Mom said is going to give you both sides, and you can decide what YOU think the truth is! Or you can just commiserate with the person you agree with.....whatever!

Once a week on Fridays one of our couples will both write a post on a certain topic that's going on in their lives or is important to them. And you'll be able to read what Dad said, and what Mom said. Why only once a week? Well, cause we'd like to have some sort of a life, we're all busy, and mostly we'd all like to STAY couples.

Next week, Issa and her husband Nick are gonna start us off!

But for now, go check out who we are at the Bios page!