Snip Snip??
Mike said:
So last week, Jenn and I found out that we're having a boy! *dances a jig* (Actually, she's having the boy, I just donated the sperm, but I've been yelled at by people when I say Jenn is having a boy, so WE'RE having a boy!) Besides the name debate (which is continuing), we now have to decide whether or not to circumcise the baby. I think we should. Maybe it's because I am and that's what I know, but I think we should do it. Jenn's all worried about the pain it will cause him, but millions of boys have it done and we're all fine. I'm concerned that if we don't have it done that he could get picked on as he gets older for being different. Also, it's a lot less work to clean when that extra skin is gone. Besides, you should see the sonogram picture...............he's hung half way to his knees! (I know that has nothing to do with this, but I felt it was worth mentioning.)
Jenn said:
Watch out, I’m armed with facts on this one! Approximately 56% of all newborn boys - about 1.1 million babies - are circumcised in the United States each year. That is only a little over half. It’s not like it was when you were a child, now almost half of the children his age will not be circumcised. So him not being like everyone else is not a warranted excuse in this case I don’t think. BUT, let’s discuss that anyway for a minute.
Allie’s one ear is a bit flopped down on one side. Ya know, she might get picked on because of that, maybe we should have it medically fixed. Or Allie’s nose might one day go the way of most of us Italians and start to take over her face. Would you want to surgically change her so she looks like everyone else? Or leave her the way she came out, which is perfect. When Allie was diagnosed with a flat spot on the back of her head we decided not to get her fitted with a helmet if it was only cosmetic, meanwhile your talking about cutting off a piece of your son’s penis for a cosmetic reason only. Makes no sense.
I don’t understand the rational of performing an unneeded surgery to remove a healthy body part from an un-consenting person. There is no other human body part we routinely remove before it presents any sign of trouble. Why the one exception?
So last week, Jenn and I found out that we're having a boy! *dances a jig* (Actually, she's having the boy, I just donated the sperm, but I've been yelled at by people when I say Jenn is having a boy, so WE'RE having a boy!) Besides the name debate (which is continuing), we now have to decide whether or not to circumcise the baby. I think we should. Maybe it's because I am and that's what I know, but I think we should do it. Jenn's all worried about the pain it will cause him, but millions of boys have it done and we're all fine. I'm concerned that if we don't have it done that he could get picked on as he gets older for being different. Also, it's a lot less work to clean when that extra skin is gone. Besides, you should see the sonogram picture...............he's hung half way to his knees! (I know that has nothing to do with this, but I felt it was worth mentioning.)
Jenn said:
Watch out, I’m armed with facts on this one! Approximately 56% of all newborn boys - about 1.1 million babies - are circumcised in the United States each year. That is only a little over half. It’s not like it was when you were a child, now almost half of the children his age will not be circumcised. So him not being like everyone else is not a warranted excuse in this case I don’t think. BUT, let’s discuss that anyway for a minute.
Allie’s one ear is a bit flopped down on one side. Ya know, she might get picked on because of that, maybe we should have it medically fixed. Or Allie’s nose might one day go the way of most of us Italians and start to take over her face. Would you want to surgically change her so she looks like everyone else? Or leave her the way she came out, which is perfect. When Allie was diagnosed with a flat spot on the back of her head we decided not to get her fitted with a helmet if it was only cosmetic, meanwhile your talking about cutting off a piece of your son’s penis for a cosmetic reason only. Makes no sense.
I don’t understand the rational of performing an unneeded surgery to remove a healthy body part from an un-consenting person. There is no other human body part we routinely remove before it presents any sign of trouble. Why the one exception?
The reasons of: Because I am, and to look like everyone else are not good enough for me. Your gonna have to come up with something better than that.
Mike Said:
OK, you wanna go there huh? OK. How about the fact that doing it lowers the risk of urinary tract infections, penile cancer, and sexually transmitted diseases. Most studies do show that uncircumcised male infants have about a 10 fold increase in UTIs, (Jenn butts in: that is only for the first year of life.) but the overall risk of an uncircumcised male infant getting a UTI is relatively low, only about 1%. Penile cancer is also more common in uncircumcised men. How about the fact that it's possible to have an infection in the foreskin which could require a circumcision later in life! OR! How about the fact that it will cut down on his chances of contracting HIV in half! Huh! HUH! HUH!?!?!?!
Jenn said:
Well, I’m happy to see that you finally went to a website that has some kind of information on it instead of giving the typical man answer of “I’m the one with the penis and I decide that he should be like me.”
However, those “facts” that you wrote up there are not necessarily facts their studies, and I could come up with a bunch of studies myself that prove every one of those studies wrong. We could go on forever that way because none of that stuff is proven one way or another. However, what I will give you is what both the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics say and that is this:
Even if all of those “facts” that you wrote up there are true, having a female circumcised would have the same affect in reducing UTI’s and lowering the chances for contracting STDs. So why is it in the US that female circumcision is called “genital mutilation” and is outlawed? Why? Because it's barbaric for either gender!
And, the only studies that ARE proven are the ones that show that circumcision removes the most sensitive parts of the penis. Why do that to our son?
All I ask is that you do me a favor and look at real websites like The American Academy of Family Physicians and The American Medical Association (instead of the first one that comes up on the search) and read actual facts before making a uninformed decision about it.
Mike Said:
OK, you wanna go there huh? OK. How about the fact that doing it lowers the risk of urinary tract infections, penile cancer, and sexually transmitted diseases. Most studies do show that uncircumcised male infants have about a 10 fold increase in UTIs, (Jenn butts in: that is only for the first year of life.) but the overall risk of an uncircumcised male infant getting a UTI is relatively low, only about 1%. Penile cancer is also more common in uncircumcised men. How about the fact that it's possible to have an infection in the foreskin which could require a circumcision later in life! OR! How about the fact that it will cut down on his chances of contracting HIV in half! Huh! HUH! HUH!?!?!?!
Jenn said:
Well, I’m happy to see that you finally went to a website that has some kind of information on it instead of giving the typical man answer of “I’m the one with the penis and I decide that he should be like me.”
However, those “facts” that you wrote up there are not necessarily facts their studies, and I could come up with a bunch of studies myself that prove every one of those studies wrong. We could go on forever that way because none of that stuff is proven one way or another. However, what I will give you is what both the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics say and that is this:
"Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn
male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine
neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits
and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being,
parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an
informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and
unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision.
If a decision for circumcision is made, procedural analgesia should be
provided."
Even if all of those “facts” that you wrote up there are true, having a female circumcised would have the same affect in reducing UTI’s and lowering the chances for contracting STDs. So why is it in the US that female circumcision is called “genital mutilation” and is outlawed? Why? Because it's barbaric for either gender!
And, the only studies that ARE proven are the ones that show that circumcision removes the most sensitive parts of the penis. Why do that to our son?
All I ask is that you do me a favor and look at real websites like The American Academy of Family Physicians and The American Medical Association (instead of the first one that comes up on the search) and read actual facts before making a uninformed decision about it.
OH and P.S. Condoms prevent AIDS, not circumcision, which I will be teaching to both of our children.
Labels: Mike and Jenn
posted by Jenn at 9:14 AM
23 Say it:
There was only a little discussion about this in our house. We were both for it. Besides the cleanliness issues, I thought it might be confusing for Nicholas' parts not to look like his father's. Honestly though, I probably could have been convinced for either point. Nicholas did not suffer too much and by the time we went home from the hospital, it was all a memory.
Ok...i was torn on this too. There does not seem to be a medical necessity, but I heard DH's point about kids getting made fun of in the locker room and/or trying to explain why he doesn't look like daddy. So, I said ok. I do not believe Ryan had much pain after it was done. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure at that moment it was terrible. And, Ryan was almost 2 weeks old when it was done due to a quick trip home for a funeral and then coming back and having to schedule it. We were not in the room when it happened, not even in the building. They told us to walk outside for 10min...ofcourse i assumed that was because they didn't want us to hear the death screams. When we came back in there were no death screams, just a fussy newborn. I think if you're gonna do it, do it at the hospital and don't wait. I think its a hard decision to make, but in the end I left it up to someone who actually had a penis. The real question is: how can I get my husband to get a snip??? LOL
I thought this might be about a slightly different sort of snip/snip. Guess that's a topic for another day.
Great research! Everything I was going to say was said by the two of you.
Joe is not circumsized. Eric was for it, I was not. My three big, macho brothers are not circumsized and they were all firmly in the no circumsize camp. They denied being teased in locker rooms (all were athletes) and questioned why we would cut off part of our child's penis.
I don't feel as strongly this time around (also expecting a boy), mostly because of the more recent research about AIDS and uncircumsized penises. Even so, we'll probably leave him uncut just so the two little brothers look alike.
Also, it's sort of an American thing. In Europe circumcision is much less common.
FYI.......I went on WebMD also after doing some searches, so don't think that I found some random site and took what they said as "bible". Either way, we have to make the decision together.
BTW, I am the one with the penis!!!
Do boys really spend that much time looking at each other's privates in the locker room and then make fun of each other? I thought only girls were that shallow (at least behind each other's backs).
My son is circumcized. I didn't think much about it. I didn't look at websites. His dad wanted it done and I figured he was the best one between the two of us to make decisions about the penis.
Having it done at the hospital was no big deal. I could have gone with, but chose not to. They brought him back - no crying - but all lubed up with vaseline. I will admit I was a bit scared to take care of the penis being that is was all red, but it turned out to be no big deal and it healed painlessly in a few days.
I briefly considered not circumcising our son. My husband was okay either way - he's from India, where certain ethnic and religious groups do either/or. He had no opinion, either way but really preferred to go with the majority here in the US, since this is where we live. However, if I would have pushed the issue and said absolutely NO, he would have been okay with it, so it was up to me.
Then, I decided to do it. For cosmetic reasons and simply because I wanted it to be one less thing that he would have to deal with in the boy's locker room. While the rate is overall around 56%, the rates vary between regions - the Western region tends to be the lowest and is dragging that overall rate quite low - the Northcentral region is near 80% (link: http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/)
Great discussion!
We did not do it, and decided that even though he would look different from his Dad that was ok. I also brought up the point that if we didn't do it to our son, then when he has a son someday, it won't be an issue. They can not circumsize, and look the same. It is a personal decision, but I will also say it doesn't require any special cleaning, other than normal bathing, and he has never had any issues.
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my husband is not circumsized but Connor is. My reasons are this why take the chance of something terrible happening later in life and it has to be done then. I can't imagine it would be fun.
My mother just told me when my Grandfather was 70 he had to be circumsized and it wasn't a happy time for him. Also at this time he was in ICU and had already had enough to deal with let alone having to be circumsized.
With Connor We were all for it, he did not suffer matter of a fact the dr said he didn't cry very much at all. He was a little bit fussy that day but he was fine! He healed Perfectly. I wouldn't have changed my decision for anything.
In the end It is you and Mikes Decision we can only weigh in on it.
What a fun blog this is! I love it!
First, congratulations on your pregnancy! What a fun and exciting time!
I can't offer much personal advice as a mom since my two children are girls. I will tell you that two of my nephews are uncircumcised.
The nephews who are uncircumcised were left that way due to the fact that their circumcised father who is a pediatrician in Lawrence, KS (my brother in law) refused to have it done to his children. He said it was unnecessary and even barbaric to watch. He said he'd even had a few boys as patients in his clinic who suffered problems after the surgery. He also will not perform any circumcisions and I think it's often done by OB/Gyn's anyway. He provided me with a great deal of information while I was pregnant (we didn't know the gender. From what I had read and researched on my own, we had pretty much decided not to circumcise any boys we might have.
Does it matter that a boy would look different than his father? I can't imagine if I had boys that it would have mattered if they were or were not circumcised. I don't think kids spend a lot of time looking at their parents down there. My husband never potty trained our girls and I'm sure he wouldn't have done any of it if we had boys either. My girls have never looked at me down there, so I hope whatever you two decided, *that* won't be the deciding factor. LOL!
I'd recommend trusting your instinct not to put the little guy through any pain or surgery. It seems like mother nature put it there for a reason and what's that old margarine commerical say - "it's not nice to fool with mother nature".
Good luck in your decision. Don't get into a huge fight over it. Just love your children and love each other and it'll all work out.
Best of luck!
Heather
Colleyville, TX
My husband and I went back and forth over this issue and decided NOT to circumcise. Unfortunately, the foreskin never loosened up and my son couldn't get free of it to pee and he'd balloon up while a little dribble would come out the end. We had to have him circumsized at age 5. It was NOT fun. For anyone. He cried and cried, but the worst part was trying to separate him from his bandage later. We finally had to take him back to the doctor and let THEM remove it. It was awful. Knowing what I know now, I would go ahead and get it done in the hospital. My poor baby...
snip snip
1.name a famous porn cock thats sheathed......do you really want to limit his career possibilities.
2. i had infections as a kid and i was circumsized......i cant imagine having to keep my shit clean.
3 no male ever remembers that day in the hospital when they get there junk trimmed. suck it up and stop worrying about the wienie, and snip the wienie.
Ooh, this one's touchy - to say the least! Hmmmm, I don't think Hubby and I really every discussed it with The Big Guy. It sounds ignorant of me but before becoming the mommy of a boy I hadn't even thought about the pain factor.
I guess I just base my decision now (still for it) on the fact that The Big Guy, Hubby, and others who have had it are fine now. It's definitely a matter of personal choice. I just hate to see it come between two parents who want the best for their child.
i never even thought about NOT doing it for blake. you have a boy, you snip the peanuts. end of story. lol
he was fine- he was great after it was done. and he doesn't remember it. if i had another boy, i'd do it again.
Yeah, Hubby is Dutch, so there was no question. He isn't.
Even if he were, we wern't going to do it for Clark. Hubby says 'IT'S GENITAL MUTILATION' and therefore wont even discuss it with people.
I was of the camp that since it isn't medically neccessary, so don't do it'
No problems here.
I don't get the "not looking like his father's penis" part....How many kids see their dad's penis, anyway?? (or is that my repressed Catholic upbringing talking?)
We did do it. At the end of the day, K thought it would be easier if theirs..uh...looked alike. So....
I let Mr Big Dubya decide... he has one, I don't.
He was in favor for all of the reasons listed (medical and social)-- so we did.
The 'lil man was 3 weeks old (he was a premie, spent some time in the NICU)and was upset after -- but I held him and he went to sleep and woke up just fine.
Ooh, hard topic! Neither of mine were snipped. We were all set to do it with the first b/c hubby is, but our oldest was born with issues & we had to put it off & actually see a urologist to have it done. By that point we had heard some *horror* stories about adhesions. Most circs don't have complications, but some do....
We did have our consult with the urologist & he assured us that he'd be happy to do it but that there really is no increased risk of contracting anything unless my kids turn out to be homeless or have really amazingly horrible hygiene. He did say one thing that made me think though. He would not do a circ without anesthesia. Our son was only 2 months old at that point, but he felt it was inhumane to do it like the OB's do in the hospital when the babes are first born. Honestly, I had never even thought about that!
Good luck with your decision. I know it's a tough one & everyone has an opinion.
This boils down to a personal decision and it is unfortunate that it is causing arguments between the two of you. Regardless of what medical thought is, I'm going to agree with the Dad on this one. He really is in a better position to know best.
Living in the UK I have always found the US taste for lopping bits off their boys' penises rather odd.
It would simply never occur to me to start cutting bits off my child with a scalpel. On the other hand we send our children to school full-clothed so mutual examination that seems to weigh heavily in this debate is not really an issue. Nor am I conscious of ever having had a look at my Dad's willy so even if it had been my ardent desire that mine should match his I don't think I would have had the opportunity to be upset.
We researched it for a while before making our decision. What made our decision for us was not the research, but was actually seeing it done on a video.
I was so protective of this baby already that it made no sense to me to begin his life with a knife lopping off part of him. We ended up not doing it and honestly it is not any more difficult to care for and we haven't had any health issues.
As for the research, I think that you can spin it for either side and really??? I find that both sides inspire fear.
this is an old blog...and I see baby has been born now....so uh, what happened? Was a decision reached and which was it? Just curious. My cousin has three sons...the first was not circumcised because my cousin was armed with all this information saying it was unecessary and she was worried,scared etc. Long story short, her son had so many problems, despite being squeeky clean that sons 2 and 3 were immediately circumcised and poor son number 1 still has problems but is now 17 and they still arent sure what to do since now its a big deal. Well I hope whatever decision you made worked out well because I know its not always a problem to leave them un-circ.
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